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#1 2012-05-20 06:52:11

bulldog
Member
Registered: 2008-03-05
Posts: 665

creating a beautiful market square

""Additionally, if the city wants to make Market Square more inviting, removing the riff-raff would be another positive and very cost-effective measure.

Shirtless, spitting, swearing gaggles of teens and young adults who mill about from late morning to very late at night stand in sharp contrast to any future vision of Market Square so, again, why wait, fix that problem now.""

John Kastner
opinion editorial stratford beacon herald

the main problem wiith a market square development is illustrated in Kastner's comments...  an open market square has to be inviting to everybody and one part of the community like Kastner and his WASPS want control on who should use the square,  who is the "Riff-Raff" and who is not?????

as for the younger people out there as John refers to as
""Shirtless, spitting, swearing gaggles of teens and young adults""

I know that does not include the whole age group and somebody could spit but not swear,,,,,,, but certainly an open market square used by all would have different groups of people use it in some form of harmony......,

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#2 2012-05-21 09:34:04

Steel
Member
Registered: 2008-02-16
Posts: 2521

Re: creating a beautiful market square

The businesses that front Market Square have always seemed to be the runts of the litter. That seems to be improving slowly. Market Square has all the hallmarks to be a very trendy shopping, dining and enjoyable place. With the old Bud's feed being redone by Revell cafe, a new Thai place and Backstage seeming to enjoy success perhaps we are heading the right way. Brennan Jewelers needs a face lift..or at least a fresh coat of paint. The engineering outfit that now occupies the old paint store could do the Square a favour by getting rid of the 1950's style store front and doing justice to the building they occupy. Othello's is still vacant and for sale and forms the other half of the Bud's feed building. The old Grey Coach station remains windowless and I am not sure anyone really knows what goes on behind that rather drab exterior. The few remaining stroe fronts are a mix of clothing and specialty stores for which the owners of the buildings could only help their values by bringing back the style of the turn of the last century buildings they own.

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#3 2012-05-21 12:59:06

spankie
Member
Registered: 2008-01-01
Posts: 1350

Re: creating a beautiful market square

I don't know when they changed the law but when I was younger you could only hang out downtown on the streets for a few minutes before the cops would chase you off for loitering. We were just talking most of the time. Now I see people smoking crack at city hall and no cops in sight.

I can see allowing the buskers as long as they are not causing a nuisance but to allow roving gangs to hang around is another thing.

Course it would probably help if there was something for young people to do in this town. When I was younger the parks use to have programs come around once a month at least, then we also could go roller skating on the weekends and they had a teen hangout at one point. Now there's not even these things being offered.

I had suggested they turn the old fairgrounds into a recreational facility. They could bring back roller skating in the building that use to hold the displays. Change the horse arena into an indoor go kart track. Turn the animal display burn into a paintball or laser tag site. This would not only give the people of Stratford something to do but would attract others and it could run year round.

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#4 2012-05-26 09:38:51

bulldog
Member
Registered: 2008-03-05
Posts: 665

Re: creating a beautiful market square

"The engineering outfit that now occupies the old paint store could do the Square a favour by getting rid of the 1950's style store front and doing justice to the building they occupy"

beauty is in the eye of the beholder...............


revolutionary square in Havana is basically an old KMart parking lot...........

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#5 2012-05-26 20:28:28

seekerofreason
Member
Registered: 2012-04-05
Posts: 100

Re: creating a beautiful market square

Move the buses: dig up the concrete on the now old buses area: truck in a few loads of dirt: get 3 to 10 trees donated: get 5 to 10 benches donated: planet grass:  TAAAADAAAAAA, you have 1/2 of the square done.  Cost- alot less than the $2,000,000.00 stated.  Plus, its a starting point.  From there you fix the rest.

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#6 2012-05-26 22:47:44

Cougs
Member
Registered: 2011-08-01
Posts: 143

Re: creating a beautiful market square

I'm sorry, but when did John Kastner, or any one else for that matter, become the king of Stratford?
Doggy is absolutely right.
If we want Market Square to be an open, people-centred place, then that means that it's open to ALL people. Not just the ones that Mr. Kastner and his white-bread friends find suitable.
Without a doubt, the buses should be moved, and the Square needs to be used in the same capacity as a beautiful European open-air centre, where people can stroll, enjoy a coffee, perhaps extend the farmer's market, etc. But if we are encouraging the use of the Square as a place for people, then that means that there will not only be well-dressed, wealthy tourists, but noisy, bored, outgoing young people, as well.
Or are we going to gate it off and only let the more desirable folks in?
Mr. Kastner's description of the "shirtless, spitting, swearing riff-raff" infuriates me.
Does the editor of that piece of crap not realize that those are his reader's (what's left of them) children??
If it takes a village to raise a child, then this village had better damned-well find something for those children to do. You can't tell them to "move along" unless you've got somewhere for them to move along to.

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#7 2012-05-28 00:18:39

Miss Manners
Member
From: Here
Registered: 2012-05-24
Posts: 33

Re: creating a beautiful market square

Generational discord is a harbinger of a serious problem.
It seems like this issue is perfect for a town visioning session. Why not hold a few community sessions and invite input from everyone. Add a digital component to it.... turn it into a Stratford Ted.


" Plough in the dynamical plane, and harvest in parameter space."

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#8 2012-05-28 13:32:43

spankie
Member
Registered: 2008-01-01
Posts: 1350

Re: creating a beautiful market square

seekerofreason wrote:

Move the buses: dig up the concrete on the now old buses area: truck in a few loads of dirt: get 3 to 10 trees donated: get 5 to 10 benches donated: planet grass:  TAAAADAAAAAA, you have 1/2 of the square done.  Cost- alot less than the $2,000,000.00 stated.  Plus, its a starting point.  From there you fix the rest.

Did you just say $2 Billion? Are you joking? And who's pockets is that going to come out of?

It must be nice to be council and spend money like this.

If certain groups in this town are so for spending money like there's no shortage of it then maybe it should be coming out of their pockets.

Last edited by spankie (2012-05-28 13:34:20)

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#9 2012-05-28 14:43:47

rankinfile
Moderator
Registered: 2007-12-28
Posts: 843

Re: creating a beautiful market square

No, I think it is only a bit more than $Two Million-----a bargain in today's atmosphere of spending.  Now if we could only get that multi story historical industrial ram-shackled piece of crap removed.....

Hmm....there has been a recent suggestion that PART of the structure might work as an inside garage/  We do need more parking, and the concrete floor(s) are fairly strong.  Might we kill a couple of birds with this idea??

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#10 2012-05-28 15:17:02

seekerofreason
Member
Registered: 2012-04-05
Posts: 100

Re: creating a beautiful market square

spankie wrote:

seekerofreason wrote:

Move the buses: dig up the concrete on the now old buses area: truck in a few loads of dirt: get 3 to 10 trees donated: get 5 to 10 benches donated: planet grass:  TAAAADAAAAAA, you have 1/2 of the square done.  Cost- alot less than the $2,000,000.00 stated.  Plus, its a starting point.  From there you fix the rest.

Did you just say $2 Billion? Are you joking? And who's pockets is that going to come out of?
It must be nice to be council and spend money like this.

If certain groups in this town are so for spending money like there's no shortage of it then maybe it should be coming out of their pockets.

Huh?  $2, 000, 000.00 is 2 MILLION.  Learn your numbers Spankie!!!  Considering the original figure was over $4 Million, I would think spending $500,000.00 would be a steal to get it started.  Doesn't have to be gold plated, but grass and tree's would be nice...

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#11 2012-05-28 17:24:06

spankie
Member
Registered: 2008-01-01
Posts: 1350

Re: creating a beautiful market square

Still how many more millions is this city going to peter away before getting input from everyone rather than a few small specific groups.

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#12 2012-05-28 17:46:43

seekerofreason
Member
Registered: 2012-04-05
Posts: 100

Re: creating a beautiful market square

Yeah, cuz we'd not want to have a strong vibrant downtown?  Dumb dumb dumb! A strong, vibrant market square area with grass, trees and such will make the city, ALL OF IT, stronger for it.  A community space, that ALL CITIZENS will enjoy.  Just look at the great work the City Centre does with that concrete disaster giving lots of free or very cheap efforts for the community to enjoy.  Or are you against that kind of thing too? 

You have to spend money to make a community work.  Sorry, you prefer we build wider lanes for a Wal Mart store first I'm betting.... 

Me, I would like to see them spend $500,000.00 now to do 1/2 of the area, move the damn buses and begin transforming the space.  But right now, if it isn't for the university or for some food event, it doesn't get attention. 

But bash away whoever you are.  Read lots of your posts, you are obviously anti Stratford and anti downtown as you complain about everything those folks do and everything this city has to offer. Me,I likes it here and hope we can improve on it for ALL OF THE CITIZENS!

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#13 2012-05-28 19:24:54

Miss Manners
Member
From: Here
Registered: 2012-05-24
Posts: 33

Re: creating a beautiful market square


" Plough in the dynamical plane, and harvest in parameter space."

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#14 2012-05-28 19:31:59

rankinfile
Moderator
Registered: 2007-12-28
Posts: 843

Re: creating a beautiful market square

No disagreement with your concept of doing 1/2 the square in grass and trees as a start.   BUT, where do you put the buses---probably the St. Patrick lot---let's now also consider the parking issue, bus routing, lighting for users at night, parking for the University---trashing the Cooper building ( or doing something with the damn thing).....unfortunately this is a multifaceted issue---not a simple move the buses and dig up the road....

What do you bet that the local downtown retail shops will be pissed off NOT having the passengers de-bus in front of their shop (thinking Blowes here).

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#15 2012-05-30 12:45:25

spankie
Member
Registered: 2008-01-01
Posts: 1350

Re: creating a beautiful market square

seekerofreason wrote:

Yeah, cuz we'd not want to have a strong vibrant downtown?  Dumb dumb dumb! A strong, vibrant market square area with grass, trees and such will make the city, ALL OF IT, stronger for it.  A community space, that ALL CITIZENS will enjoy.  Just look at the great work the City Centre does with that concrete disaster giving lots of free or very cheap efforts for the community to enjoy.  Or are you against that kind of thing too? 

You have to spend money to make a community work.  Sorry, you prefer we build wider lanes for a Wal Mart store first I'm betting.... 

Me, I would like to see them spend $500,000.00 now to do 1/2 of the area, move the damn buses and begin transforming the space.  But right now, if it isn't for the university or for some food event, it doesn't get attention. 

But bash away whoever you are.  Read lots of your posts, you are obviously anti Stratford and anti downtown as you complain about everything those folks do and everything this city has to offer. Me,I likes it here and hope we can improve on it for ALL OF THE CITIZENS!

I'm not opposed to spending money if it's worth it but this city has a bad habit of spending money without consulting the entire population and it being a disaster.

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