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#31 2011-01-25 18:55:42

mr.nelson
Member
Registered: 2008-02-06
Posts: 416

Re: wind turbines,,yeh or nay

Turbines on trial as judges hear witness from UWO 
JONATHAN SHER, QMI AGENCY
 

TORONTO -The fate of the billion-dollar wind industry and the future of green energy in Ontario may now rest in the hands of three divisional-court judges.

The province's Green Energy Act was put to the test Monday before a panel of three Superior Court justices over a clash that has played out in many Ontario communities -- are wind turbines a savior of the environment or a risk to health to those who live in their shadow?
The stakes are huge: Dalton McGuinty has staked his political fortunes and the province's economic future largely on building a green-energy industry.
But in court Monday. the case likely turned on fine points of law that left non-lawyers with glazed eye in the packed courtroom at Osgoode Hall.
The sum of those points is this: Did then-Environment Minister John Gerretsen overstep his authority when he recommended how far turbines should be from homes?
Lawyer Eric Gillespie, who is representing a Prince Edward County man challenging the Minister, laid out his case:
* The Minister didn't rely on medical advisors, instead using experts in unrelated fields.
* The failure to consult doctors was a critical defect because medical professionals are not sure if wind turbines cause harm to health.
* n The process was flawed because the government's own statement of environmental values calls on decision-makers to not act if there is uncertainty whether harm will be caused -- the so-called precautionary principle.
"There does not appear anyone who had the requisite qualifications to provide advice to the minister," Gillespie told the panel.
The government's lawyer, Sara Blake, defended the process, saying it was enough that the minister reviewed scientific studies, then attacked the credibility of doctors cited by Gillespie.
Taking aim at a former dean of the medical school at the University of Western Ontario, Blake said he was acting as an advocate, not a scientist, because an area near his home in Prince Edward County was targeted for possible wind farms.

"He's not an expert. He's an advocate against wind farms," she said.
The three judges wrapped up the hearing, saying they were hopeful they'd reach a judgment soon.
That the judges are deliberating at all was a win for opponents to wind power -- Blake argued the court lacked jurisdiction to hear a challenge she said belonged before an environmental tribunal set up by the government.
The clearing of that hurdle opened the door to challenging Green Energy Act provision that turbines need be only 550 metres from homes.
Wind power is the star in Ontario's renewable-energy plan -- the government wants to double its output this year and ramp it up to provide 10% of energy output over 20 years.
Energy is also a key political dividing line for the Ontario election in October.
Those who say the turbines harm health say the mega-devices emit low-pitched sounds which some doctors say disrupt the body's rhythms and cause headaches, tinnitus, dizziness, nausea, rapid heart rate, irritability and problems with concentration and memory.


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#32 2011-01-25 22:41:20

Not Intimidated
Member
Registered: 2011-01-14
Posts: 19

Re: wind turbines,,yeh or nay

So Mr. Bulldog, you have no time for the people who are having their health ruined by IWT's? Who are you to judge the value of their lives? Who gave you or anybody else the the right to make those decisions? Answer - Nobody.

The people that are truly sick from IWT's deserve to be looked after. Future infringements on the health & well being of others must also be protected.

Bulldog, neither you nor anybody else is entitled to mistreat another fellow citizen.

Your attitude and words match your "Bulldog" moniker on this General Banter section.

You should change your moniker from "Bulldog" to "Lap Dog" because you are a "Yes Man" to the wind industry.

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#33 2011-01-26 00:27:38

mr.nelson
Member
Registered: 2008-02-06
Posts: 416

Re: wind turbines,,yeh or nay

spankie wrote:

Blueline wrote:

mr.nelson wrote:

Lawyer Patrick Murphy of the Goderich firm Donnelly and Murphy has been hired to launch the proposed action.

Murphy admits the lawsuit could take years to get to court.

Murphy says his firm will advertise for anyone affected by wind turbines so a class of individuals can be developed.

So basically a law firm is rounding up a bunch of people for something that they know will take along time.  To me it just sounds like an incredible money maker for lawyers.

And seeing we all know Mr. Nelson = Lawrence Ryan he would know all about that as this is his profession.

Well Spankie,
I don't know who on this forum does not understand that
I am NOT Lawrence Ryan.
I try to post the truth or documents to show proof.
Its too bad that people cant accept it.
And don't hide behind some fake name on forums.
Mr.Nelson


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#34 2011-01-26 06:15:15

bulldog
Member
Registered: 2008-03-05
Posts: 665

Re: wind turbines,,yeh or nay

big headlines in the sneeken beacon last night for a court case on wind mills.....  the headline is huge and considering the previous newspaper coverage,,,,,i am wondering if somebody in the beacon or higher up the food chain has a cottage or something in the area of a windfarm or do they really hate dalton mcguinty??????

one of the main witnesses for the anti wind turbiners is a retired doctor and dean of medicine at university of western ontario,,,,,,,who has admitted under cross examination that he is an advocate not a scientist as he owns land near a proposed windfarm site......................

one farmer on the news last night said this is all about the new disease "lackachehqueoliosus"  in other words people who did not sign up are jealous of the land owners who did....................

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#35 2011-01-26 18:41:20

bulldog
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Registered: 2008-03-05
Posts: 665

Re: wind turbines,,yeh or nay

ho hum,,,,another childish,,,hidious editorial in our local rag on the dreaded windmill........

and i quote........

"it's doubtful the judges will outlaw them altogether, but who knows. One would suspect that the most the three learned justices will do is insist that there be stringent rules regarding distances from buildings and people and so on. So it's not realistic to expect that the decision will be life and death for wind farms in Ontario."


it is not realistic to view the above in the light of outstanding journalism or editorial content..........................there will be no pullitzer prize here,,,,just a rasberry...........................

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#36 2011-01-26 21:36:33

Not Intimidated
Member
Registered: 2011-01-14
Posts: 19

Re: wind turbines,,yeh or nay

Once again Bulldog continues with his own brand of childish ranting and ravings and grumblings. once more, Bulldog cannot seem to devise any literary genius of his own in order to state his case; and can only resort to bullying anyone who opposes his ideas. Shame on you "Lapdog". Shame on You. You are all bark and no bite.

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#37 2011-01-26 21:53:17

mr.nelson
Member
Registered: 2008-02-06
Posts: 416

Re: wind turbines,,yeh or nay

How ontario blew it on energy

By CHRISTINA BLIZZARD

 

Stupid. Reckless. Incompetent. What word captures the way Dalton McGuinty's government has blown it when it comes to windmills and green energy?

Having sold us on their new, clean, green energy, and having hiked our bills to the stratosphere, the province is now in a situation where we have so much wind power, we had to pay Quebec and U.S. states more than $1 million to take it off our hands.


You've heard of fire sales? This was a wind sale.

New Year's Day was warm -- and windy. Our windfarms were in overdrive.

Most of industry was shut down, so energy demands were low.

You can't store electricity, so you either have to cut back on production -- or find somewhere for it to go.

In brave new Ontario, the government pays windfarm operators a whopping 13.5 a kilowatt hour (kwh) to generate electricity.

That compares to about 2.5 a kwh for electricity from hydro plants such as Niagara and about 5.5 for nuclear.

(On top of that, we pay a "Global adjustment of about 3 cents a kwh -- and going up -- for new wind and solar projects).

The Independent Electricity System Operator (IESO) must take electricity produced by wind first.

So with an excess, generators such as the Beck Plant in Niagara Falls were forced to spill water. Yes, you heard.

Advertisement

We had to throw away the cheapest, greenest electricity in the world from Niagara to make way for the really expensive green wind stuff.

And we still had too much -- so we had to pay our neighbours to take the expensive stuff off our hands.

(You can't turn off a gas plant or a nuclear plant completely, because they're big and complicated to re-boot.)

Energy Minister Brad Duguid defended the sale.

"We were paid to take power from other jurisdictions on Dec. 30," Duguid said. "It's a reciprocal arrangement that has been in place for some time.

"Any jurisdiction that is operating on the open market is subject to this kind of provision, where energy exchanges when your demand dips below your baseload capacity and it is more expensive to start shutting down some of those baseload capacity units, like your nuclear units, than it is to pay somebody to take that surplus power that occurs on rare occasions."

Fair enough. Only two problems with that. First, industry is still in a funk. We aren't using as much power -- so these days we're using less power all the time. How often will this occur?

Second, if you have to pay people to take excess juice, why would you keep generating the really expensive stuff, like wind?

Surely you should tell the wind operators to shut down first.

A spokesman for the IESO says that's what they are looking at.

"One of the things we are working at is the ability to turn off that wind.

"If you've got a situation that's going to last for a couple of hours, does it make sense to turn off a plant that's going to be off for 72 hours, that you might need within those 72 hours, or does it make sense to turn something off for a couple of hours, and deal with the situation that way?" said Terry Young.

In the immortal words of Oscar the Grouch: It isn't easy being green.

It's not cheap, either.


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#38 2011-01-27 00:13:38

bulldog
Member
Registered: 2008-03-05
Posts: 665

Re: wind turbines,,yeh or nay

again,,,christine snowstorm blizzard is another sun media hack.... this out of town corporation also is  owner of the sneacon beacon........

sun media/ quebec corp has it in for these peaceful non-polluting wind turbines...........................

but read on if you dare...........





Good Things About Wind Turbines








Good Things About Wind Turbines
By Shannon George, eHow Contributor .updated: October 2, 2010

.

Wind turbines use natural wind energy to produce electricity on both utility and household scales.Wind turbines capture energy from the wind and turn it into electricity, using spinning blades that activate a generator when moved by the wind. Harvesting energy by using wind turbines offers many environmental, social and economic advantages, though these are mostly unrealized: according to the nonprofit group, Windustry, wind turbines could supply supply up to 20 percent of U.S. electricity, but as of 2010, the nation derives less than one percent of its electricity from wind.
Economic Benefits
According to Windustry, using wind turbines to supply energy can provide many economic benefits to the United States, including: energy price stability, as the cost of wind is fixed and free; fewer subsidies (wind power receives much less taxpayer money in the form of government energy subsidies compared to conventional energy); revitalizing local economies by providing a new source of property taxes in rural areas; and creation of green jobs. According to the American Wind Energy Association (AWEA), the wind turbine industry can also benefit the U.S. manufacturing sector, particularly the metalworking industry. AWEA says that with metal parts comprising 90 percent of wind turbines, the metalworking industry made more than $3 billion in 2008 from wind turbine equipment sales. The AWEA expects the positive effects of wind turbines on the metalworking industry to multiply in the coming decades as wind turbines produce a greater share of U.S. electricity.
Societal Benefits
Use of wind turbines also results in benefits to society, such as reducing oil imports and allowing families and small businesses to participate in energy generation. According to Windustry, wind turbines provide "homegrown electricity," which protects domestic interests by reducing U.S. dependence on foreign oil. Furthermore, through small groups of turbines or even individual turbines, local landowners and small businesses can contribute to the world electricity supply while reinvesting energy dollars back into the U.S. economy, says Windustry. Families can even use wind turbines to achieve energy independence on a household level. According to AWEA, individual households and small businesses can install small wind turbines to generate enough energy to power a home or business. Small wind turbines can be used on or off the energy grid.
Environmental Benefits
According to the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency, emissions associated with generating electricity from wind turbines are negligible because no fuels are combusted. If implemented on a wide scale, wind turbine technology could result in a significant reduction in the greenhouse gas emissions that contribute to climate change. Approximately 40 percent of U.S. carbon dioxide emissions come from power plant generation facilities, according to AWEA. AWEA says that if the United States were to generate 20 percent of its electricity from wind energy by the year 2030, it would eliminate 825 million metric tons of carbon dioxide--or 25 percent of the nation's electricity-related CO2 emissions. In addition to their stellar emissions profile, EPA says that wind turbines require only minimal amounts of water and do not produce any substantial amount of solid waste when generating energy.
.

Read more: Good Things About Wind Turbines | eHow.com http://www.ehow.com/list_7268660_good-t … z1CDARmmBR

Last edited by bulldog (2011-01-27 00:42:15)

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#39 2011-01-27 12:51:42

Steel
Member
Registered: 2008-02-16
Posts: 2521

Re: wind turbines,,yeh or nay

Bully....Blizzard's editorial piece had nothing to do with the whether these things looked good doting the country side, have health issues or anything like that.

Her piece had to do with economics. Dalt has created a situation where the grid operator has to take wind and sollar energy first before all other forms. Of course these are the most expensive.....by a long shot.

Every other method of generation takes a back seat and has to power down in the situation she describes. Why on earth would you power down generation at Niagara? It is 100% green...and whats best is it is PAID FOR. It also costs 2.5 cents/kwh.

So the lunacy is that we forsake hydro power and its 100% green attributes in favour of wildly more expense green energy that costs about 7 times more.

Makes lots of sense to me Bully....lots of sense that is if you beleive everything Johnny and Dalt tell you.

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#40 2011-01-27 18:22:45

bulldog
Member
Registered: 2008-03-05
Posts: 665

Re: wind turbines,,yeh or nay

blizzard's words are twisted much like the wind turbine protesters.... niagara power levels are varried constantly not only by demand but also by the lake levels and international treaty with the U.S.A.  to keep a certain amount of flow going over the edge........after reading other sun media stories,,,,i am  very leery of their statistics and facts................

it is quite clear to me that sun media has it in for dalton and they will get him anyway they can which includes the wind turbine conspiracy..........

i don't blame them that much for throwing daggers at dalton and the liberals but the issue of renewable energy and non combustion electrical generation is bigger than the current provincial government..............it is bigger than the CAVES (Citizens Against Virtually Everything) ..........

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#41 2011-01-27 19:48:39

Steel
Member
Registered: 2008-02-16
Posts: 2521

Re: wind turbines,,yeh or nay

bulldog wrote:

it is quite clear to me that sun media has it in for dalton  ..........

and you don't think that the rest of Ontario's population are having a love fest with the guy????

Take the blinders off man.

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#42 2011-01-27 20:57:45

Not Intimidated
Member
Registered: 2011-01-14
Posts: 19

Re: wind turbines,,yeh or nay

Like so much low frequency noise from a Industrial Wind Turbine development, "Lapdog" keeps whining and groaning away......anyone that opposes "Lapdog" is a cottage owning/cave dwelling ne'er do good idiot who has a hate on for dalton Mc Guinty et al.....Ontario's economic health is threatened as is our physical health by the IWT's....I agree with Steel - take the blinders off indeed....

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#43 2011-01-27 22:05:59

bulldog
Member
Registered: 2008-03-05
Posts: 665

Re: wind turbines,,yeh or nay

i think that steel was refering to a more common than not disgust with mcguinty and liberal party.................. and  i must concur that this does seem to be the case and a weapon of choice for the media and the windmill haters......

i love the following quote from intimidator....

"anyone that opposes "Lapdog" is a cottage owning/cave dwelling ne'er do good idiot"

on that note,,,,its time to go to bed,,,,,,,,you know what they say,,,,,the earlybird gets the wind turbine............

it is getting scary now as we drive to various destinations,,,,we can tell what make the turbines are 550 meters  away or so..... general electric,,,,vesta,,,,enercon......  i have not seen a samsung one yet but i am sure they will be nice too........

i cannot tell the difference between a honda and a toyota but i do see the artistic differences between the different makes of turbines....

i guess beauty is in the eye of the  beholder........

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#44 2011-01-27 23:22:26

Not Intimidated
Member
Registered: 2011-01-14
Posts: 19

Re: wind turbines,,yeh or nay

I am glad you enjoy the sarcasm "Lapdog". Very ironic in that you are quick to slag Sun Media as an evil out of town corporation but are more than happy to snuggle up to the out of town IWT corporations. I bet you must be making tons of money building these things? That does not make your ideas better and smarter than the rest us and does not give you a right to your arrogance.

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#45 2011-01-28 01:37:22

mr.nelson
Member
Registered: 2008-02-06
Posts: 416

Re: wind turbines,,yeh or nay

Supreme Court hands dairy farmers a win over stray voltage
Posted at 1:22 PM on January 26, 2011

http://minnesota.publicradio.org/collec … farm.shtml

A divided Minnesota Supreme Court ruled today that two Wabasha County farmers can seek money from an electric utility, whose stray voltage, they say, has caused their cows to give out less milk (see opinion). The stray voltage is also believed to have killed 80 dairy cows.

In upholding a lower court's ruling, the Supreme Court said Greg and Harlan Siewert of Zumbro Falls are free to seek damages from Northern States Power Company, the parent of Xcel Energy. When the two moved to their new farm in 1989, they noticed the milk production decreased from their 150-200 cows. Experts said it was because electrical current returned to the ground through the cows.

"It's a slow, painful tortuous death, is what it is for them," Greg Siewert told the Star Tribune in 2008. "It's like watching someone die of AIDS."

The court rejected the utility's claim that any damages would impact electricity rates in violation of state law, especially if it had to redesign its electrical distribution system.

In her dissent, Chief Justice Lori Gildea wrote, "the judiciary is not in the position to order NSP to adopt one electrical distribution system over another without potentially undermining the nuanced balancing and determinations made by the Minnesota Public Utilities Commission..."

She acknowledged, however, that "NSP did not deliver electricity in the safest or most prudent way."

The effect of stray voltage on cows has been a controversy in Minnesota since farmers started raising the issue in the 1990s. About a half-dozen farmers have filed suit over the years against utility companies.


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