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#1 2010-12-04 14:59:36

bulldog
Member
Registered: 2008-03-05
Posts: 665

wind turbines,,yeh or nay

this is a good nimby quote from MPP larry miller of grey bruce regarding wind turbines.

"We all know that at least 75% of the power produced by wind farms in rural Ontario will be used in the GTA and other large cities to the south of us," Miller wrote in a letter to the Owen Sound Sun Times.

If (Premier Dalton) McGuinty is so hell-bent on providing Toronto with wind-generated power, I urge him to build a couple hundred wind turbines on the waterfront in plain view of those million-dollar condos that look out onto Lake Ontario. He could save hundreds of millions of dollars in transmission line costs, but more importantly, he would definitely hear the squeals of indignation from our urban cousins over the placements of turbines in their' backyard. Maybe then he would listen to the people of rural Ontario."

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#2 2010-12-05 12:16:59

spankie
Member
Registered: 2008-01-01
Posts: 1350

Re: wind turbines,,yeh or nay

I like to know the cost of a wind turbine as compared to it's eletrical output and compare this with Nuclear. I would have to think that Nuclear is probably a more efficient source of energy especially since we are being told it's going to cost us more for this type of enegry. Guess we can thank the enviromentalist for this crap. Can't have coal, don't like nuclear. Fine then they should foot the bill for green energy not the rest of us.

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#3 2010-12-05 13:03:56

Steel
Member
Registered: 2008-02-16
Posts: 2521

Re: wind turbines,,yeh or nay

Spanks...Nuclear is very expensive power, especially using the CANDU style of heavy water reactor. That said, the gaint wind turbines are expensive and somewhat unreliable. Thousands and thousands were biult along the I-10 corridor between Palm Springs and the LA basin....despite power issues in California only about half of these things are ever working.

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#4 2010-12-05 13:20:55

CommonMan
Member
Registered: 2008-02-04
Posts: 270

Re: wind turbines,,yeh or nay

I'd personally rather pay more for clean electric rather than have to deal with 10,000 years of nuke waste or something far worse i.e. meltdown event.  As for coal, it has to go- as bad as oil, very dirty.  If we paid the real cost of coal and nuke power, it would be the same as wind/solar.  They simply defer the cost of nuke plants out over 25 years instead of like wind/solar where there cost is immediate.  Big difference.


Shop Local-Live Local-avoid Big Box stores at all cost-be a true Stratford citizen.  Its worth it!

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#5 2010-12-06 01:08:59

mr.nelson
Member
Registered: 2008-02-06
Posts: 416

Re: wind turbines,,yeh or nay

Wind turbine opposition grows
Local News
By BRIAN SHYPULA
 

Fallout over wind turbines seems to be blowing farther inland.

Local opponents of the giant industrial wind turbines have organized a public meeting in Stratford for Dec. 16.
"I don't think the provincial government or the companies involved have done a very good job talking about all the issues," said spokesperson Dean Trentowsky of West and East Perth Against Turbines (WEPAT).
The main concerns are negative health effects on people and farm animals living near the turbines and their impact on farmland and property values.
"It's more than just planting a turbine out in the field. It's all the other amenities that are required to deliver the power from the turbine to the electrical grid," Trentowsky said of the need to build transmission systems.
"It will be an imposition, I think, on public land as well as private land and it's my belief there hasn't been enough discussion in a fair and reasonable manner about that," he said.
The fledgling group is bringing several guest speakers including Dr. Robert McMurtry, former dean of medicine at the University of Western Ontario. McMurtry has been calling for an independent study into health effects from wind turbines since November 2008.
Also speaking will be Carmen Krogh, a former director of pharmacy with Edmonton General Hospital, who is studying health effects linked to wind turbines and their proximity to homes.
Farmer David Collings will talk about the presence of stray voltage on homes and farms he tests in the Ripley area near new turbines. In a media release, WEPAT said Collings has found higher than normal levels of electricity in the homes because transmission lines are located too close to lines leading into the homes. Residents were displaying symptoms of electrical hypersensitivity such as dizziness, ringing in their ears, fatigue, headaches, feelings of pins and needles and burning sensations.
The audience will also hear a testimonial from a "victim" of industrial wind turbine development.
Trentowsky said the group sent and invitation to Perth-Wellington MP John Wilkinson, Ontario's Environment Minister, and hopes he attends.
The hot-button issue has been relatively quiet in Perth County after some rumblings in the summer of 2009 when Renewable Energy Systems (RES) Americas held a meeting in Brodhagen to introduce the company and its proposal for a wind farm between Perth Lines 44 and 55.

Trentowsky said people thought RES had moved on to "greener pastures," when the Monkton office closed a few months later.
However, door-to-door canvassing in West Perth and Perth East by RES representatives over the summer and then the construction in September of a test tower on Line 44 just east of Bornholm reignited concern, he said. "That's been the catalyst."
WEPAT formed three weeks ago.
Trentowsky said WEPAT is trying to ensure that land owners don't blindly enter into contracts with energy companies without knowing the facts about the industrial turbines, which stand more than 100 metres tall and reach nearly 150 metres at the tip of the blade.
WEPAT members made a presentation to West Perth council in late November.
"There is a lack of awareness of what is going on. The secrecy of lease signing has masked the community and has created great community upset," member Tom Melady said in a story in the Mitchell Advocate.
Melady lives at RR 2 Dublin less than one kilometre from a industrial wind farm proposed in neighbouring Huron County. He's also a member of Huron East Against Turbines.
"This is a difficult issue because it is one that is being promoted by the provincial government and the residents of the rural communities are suffering the implications," he said.
Trentowsky's mother Gloria said she remembers seeing her farm highlighted on a map showing potential wind turbine sites in Perth County at the meeting in Brodhagen. She's against the turbines.
"They're going to destroy our farmland, destroy our livelihoods," said the cash cropper who farms between Lines 44 and 46 near Bornholm, not far from the test tower.
In recent wind developments: Grey-Bruce medical officer of
* * health
Dr. Hazel Lynn has been asked by the local health unit to prepare a proposal for a study of the health effects of living near wind turbines.
Bruce-Grey-Owen Sound MP Larry Miller said he supports a call for a moratorium on wind farms pending a "proper" study into the health effects of giant turbines.
Miller, who chairs Parliament's rural caucus, said he decided to step into the contentious debate to support his provincial counterpart Bill Murdoch, who has called for a halt to wind turbine developments until an independent review is conducted into health-impact claims.
"We all know that at least 75% of the power produced by wind farms in rural Ontario will be used in the GTA and other large cities to the south of us," Miller wrote in a letter to the Owen Sound Sun Times.
"If (Premier Dalton) McGuinty is so hell-bent on providing Toronto with wind-generated power, I urge him to build a couple hundred wind turbines on the waterfront in plain view of those million-dollar condos that look out onto Lake Ontario. He could save hundreds of millions of dollars in transmission line costs, but more importantly, he would definitely hear the squeals of indignation from our urban cousins over the placements of turbines in their' backyard. Maybe then he would listen to the people of rural Ontario."
with QMI Agency files bshypula@bowesnet.co m


You Can't Fix Stupid!

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#6 2010-12-06 08:39:16

spankie
Member
Registered: 2008-01-01
Posts: 1350

Re: wind turbines,,yeh or nay

My other issue other than using up good farm land for wind and solar plants which especially is the case with wind turbines is that neither one produces all the time. This is not so bad in the summer but in the winter we need reliable power on a regular basis and this is also when green power is probably least effective. By the way seeing the lakes are probably the best source of wind why has no one thought of wind farms on the lakes? And I mean on the lakes like the ones they have in the middle of the North Seas etc. Little more expensive but if we're already being bleed dry might as well at least still be able to produce food on the land.

I love too how most Green Energy ideas come from places that have no winter and then the same principles are then tried to be applied to our climate.

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#7 2010-12-06 10:02:35

CommonMan
Member
Registered: 2008-02-04
Posts: 270

Re: wind turbines,,yeh or nay

Just need to add, the local groups that are protesting the wind towers and solar, but mostly wind, are demanding Eu standards.  Well, Ontario setback rules are bigger than the EU, so this is such a silly stance for them to tack.

The land use thing: I'd rather see wind or solar panels instead of more houses on the land.  Also, alot of the land used is marginal use land to start with.

My biggest issue with wind is the foreign ownership thing.  If local wind cooperatives would take control, I'd be even less concerned than I am right now.

Solar is our best option as it works almost 300 days a year in our area, whereas wind is about 215 days a year.


Shop Local-Live Local-avoid Big Box stores at all cost-be a true Stratford citizen.  Its worth it!

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#8 2010-12-09 00:05:57

bulldog
Member
Registered: 2008-03-05
Posts: 665

Re: wind turbines,,yeh or nay

i like wind turbines,,,,,,,i,,,,, like don cherry ,,,,,,am getting sick of these left wing pinkos complaining about unproven conspirical crap like wind turbine syndrom and electronic wifi sickness................

its time to buck up and pull together for the good of all canadians and the entire planet........

the pinkos are doing more damage to their health driving their polluting cars to the anti turbine rallies than the actual wind mills themselves........

i have to conclude by saying that if you do not like wind turbines then you are a communist pinko..........

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#9 2010-12-09 20:56:35

Steel
Member
Registered: 2008-02-16
Posts: 2521

Re: wind turbines,,yeh or nay

bulldog wrote:

i like wind turbines,,,,,,,i,,,,, like don cherry ,,,,,,am getting sick of these left wing pinkos complaining about unproven conspirical crap like wind turbine syndrom and electronic wifi sickness................

its time to buck up and pull together for the good of all canadians and the entire planet........

the pinkos are doing more damage to their health driving their polluting cars to the anti turbine rallies than the actual wind mills themselves........

i have to conclude by saying that if you do not like wind turbines then you are a communist pinko..........

As noted in your opening salvo...if they are so darn good...put them along the lakefront in Toronto...lots of hot air there.

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#10 2010-12-10 02:52:59

bulldog
Member
Registered: 2008-03-05
Posts: 665

Re: wind turbines,,yeh or nay

i cannot take credit for the opening salvo as it was a quotation but i would have no problem putting them in toronto or huron east,,,,we are all in this together......

i would have no problem with one in my back yard if my wife would let me..................

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#11 2011-01-14 23:31:14

Not Intimidated
Member
Registered: 2011-01-14
Posts: 19

Re: wind turbines,,yeh or nay

Bulldog:

I like Don Cherry and I do not like wind turbines and I am not a left wing nut job.

My vehicle passed Drive Clean so I am not over polluting the world on the way to the turbine information meetings.

You however are polluting the world with a closed minded attitude.

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#12 2011-01-15 07:52:19

bulldog
Member
Registered: 2008-03-05
Posts: 665

Re: wind turbines,,yeh or nay

i am being bombarded by factless anti wind turbine propoganda in our local newspaper and i feel that i should take the other side......

from what i understand,,,the people who are against wind turbines are neighbours of the people who have signed leases with energy companies..

this is more of a case of "hey i want some money too!!!!!!!!  what do i get????????????

just  because i have a different opinion than the wind turbine conspiracy theory,,it does not mean that i am closed minded........

i have worked on 3 wind turbine construction projects,,,,,currently i am working on a site down south with 8 general electric 2.5 megawatt turbines....this makes my tally now at 65 wind turbines.................

i am very pleased to be a small part of this effort for renewable resources.... i do not like putting a  12 hour day in and then coming home and reading editorial,,unproven,,,,unscientific claims of the wind turbine conspiracy..........

you should find something more constructive to do like join the anti walmarters or the smart meter electro magnetic radiation group...........

Last edited by bulldog (2011-01-15 07:56:33)

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#13 2011-01-15 13:09:09

Not Intimidated
Member
Registered: 2011-01-14
Posts: 19

Re: wind turbines,,yeh or nay

Bulldog:
I am being bombarded by the pro-turbine position. Among other things, it is a position that ignores real health issues. There are over 700 turbines in operation in the last 5 plus years. We are starting to learn of actual cases where people are sickened by low frequency noise, stray voltage and blade flicker. The plan is to have over 10,000 turbines in Ontario. Currently the Industrial Wind Turbine companies are buying the homes of people with health problems to keep them and the health issue problem silent from the rest of the public. The affected people are moving out and part of the buyout plan is that they keep silent or else face further consequences for breaking the terms of the buyout agreement.

The Ontario government has NOT done enough due diligence to protect the health of its Citizens. A fact based scientific study on the effects of low frequency noise would be a logical place to start. The setback distances for turbines as prescribed by the Green Energy Act Regulations are NOT science based.

The people that oppose Industrial Wind Turbine development are NOT conspiracy nuts. They ARE decent, educated and professional people from all walks of life. These people want a proper health study done. They want fairness in the way that government and business is conducted in this province. They want to ensure the protection of everyone. They want a stop to the preferential treatment of a minority interest big business group that is threatening the health & welfare of Ontario’s Citizens.

I DO live within a 1 mile radius of a lease holder. (No big shocker for you Bulldog but my next sentence may).  I do NOT want that land owner's lease money or ANY of the money from the Industrial Wind Turbine companies - period. Given the fact that the government of Ontario has signed contracts with Industrial Wind Turbine developers (i.e. $7 billion to Samsung), the turbine company money is in fact my tax money - and I will NOT be bribed with my own tax money.

I do not want Industrial Wind Turbines destroying my community. What I want is to protect human health -for my sake and the sake of my family, friends and neighbors. What I want is to protect the physical integrity of the farmland and the woodlands and to prevent the equity of my home and my property from dropping.

Human health and the environment need to be protected but Industrial Wind Turbines are not the answer for Ontario. In the case of Industrial Wind Turbine development, it is a case of the big companies raking in the profits at the expense of the public's health & welfare (I.e. Privatization of Profits and Commonization of Costs).

Bulldog, I said that you were closed minded NOT because of your having a different opinion than mine. You are entitled to your opinion, flawed as it may be, but you are entitled to it nonetheless. I said that you are closed minded because of the assumptions and conclusions that you make with your comments about people who show opposition to Industrial Wind Turbine Development.

Bulldog, you are entitled to have an opinion and express it. What I take strong exception to is that in the act of expressing your opinion on this forum. You have commented on the personal character of anyone who holds a different opinion that you do. You made those comments, yet you know very little about who we are as people and as Citizens of this country. Your comments lead to assumptions and derogatory charges; all of which are corrosive, inflammatory and do little (if nothing at all) to foster the respectful exchange of opinions and ideas.

Bulldog, I commend you for your enterprise and spirit. You obviously take pride in working hard, travelling for your work, enduring the outdoor weather to get your job done and you take pride in doing your job well.

This may come as a shock to you but my career path is similar to yours, if not identical. A majority of my career path has also involved the rigors of travelling (including the relocation of my residence numerous times), stale coffee, bad grub, lousy weather and harsh, rugged outdoor environments. Those experiences have taught me invaluable lessons that were worth the price of the aforementioned price paid (“life experience tuition”).

My career also involves the infrastructure development of this country. I have worked in various parts of Ontario and also out of province - concerning the construction of highways, roads, bridges, commercial developments, mining, minerals and manufacturing. So you see Bulldog, I am actually doing something constructive with my time after all, and I can hold valid opinions too.

When I am not working I am volunteering (donating) my time (and sometimes my money) to local community efforts.

I am not an ignorant person. I resent people unfairly labeling me as a communist pinko etc. etc., I resent people that unfairly accuse me of inciting a conspiracy and otherwise wasting time.

Bulldog, my challenge to you is to keep your eyes, ears AND mind open as you travel. Listen to the words and actions of others around you. Then take stock of your own words and actions. Think hard Bulldog.

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#14 2011-01-15 16:22:49

Not Intimidated
Member
Registered: 2011-01-14
Posts: 19

Re: wind turbines,,yeh or nay

In the Toronto Star:

http://www.thestar.com/article/922197-- … -nightmare

Walkom: How McGuinty’s windmill dreams became a nightmare
 
Dr. Robert McMurtry heads up the Society for Wind Vigilance, a new international body investigating wind power.

LUCAS OLENIUK/TORONTO STAR FILE PHOTO
 
By Thomas Walkom National Affairs Columnist
When Dalton McGuinty embraced wind power four years ago, it seemed he couldn’t lose.

Politically, his support for this infinitely renewable form of energy put the Ontario premier firmly on the side of the environmental angels.

Even more important, McGuinty’s Liberals pitched their commitment to wind as part of a comprehensive, green industrial strategy.

The government would not merely use wind turbines to generate electricity. It would also subsidize firms to build the giant machines for export.

In effect, windmills would be to the new Ontario what autos were to the old — the province’s economic driver.

Critics of the premier’s ambitious schemes were dismissed as cranks and nutters infected with a not-in-my-backyard syndrome.

To ensure that these self-seekers and know-nothings didn’t interfere with the government’s bold plans, Queen’s Park stripped municipal councils of their power to regulate wind turbines.

On paper, the plan seemed a sure winner.

But that was before Dr. Bob McMurtry.

McMurtry is neither a crank nor a nutter. An orthopedic surgeon and former dean of medicine at London’s University of Western Ontario, he is part of the country’s medical and political establishment.

He’s acted as a health advisor to the former federal Liberal government. In the early 2000s, he was a key advisor to Roy Romanow’s royal commission into Medicare.

McMurtry’s brother, Roy — a Red Tory and former attorney general — was Ontario’s chief justice for 11 years.

Bob McMurtry began as a strong advocate of wind power, keen to have a turbine built on the 16-hectare Eastern Ontario farm he bought four years ago for retirement.

As he explained in a telephone interview this week, he hoped to generate his own power and sell the rest to Ontario’s electricity network.

But being a scientific sort of chap, McMurtry began by researching the issue.

What he discovered alarmed him. In particular, he ran into evidence — re-enforced by personal encounters later — that low-frequency humming associated with wind turbines may lead to chronic sleeplessness, stress and even hypertension causing heart disease for anyone living within two kilometres of a machine.

What alarmed him more was that the provincial government did not even monitor this low-frequency noise. As well, under Ontario rules, giant windmills need be no more than 550 metres from any residence.

So in 2009, he made the not terribly radical suggestion that Queen’s Park conduct a proper, arms-length study on the health effects of industrial wind turbines before authorizing any more.

Failing that, he said, it should insist that new turbines be set at least two kilometres away from any dwelling.

The wind industry was outraged. Fearful of being enmeshed in red tape, wind power firms argued strongly against such a study. Their case was bolstered last May after provincial medical officer of health Dr. Arlene King issued a report saying no scientific evidence exists to show that wind turbines harm human health.

McMurtry countered that this is because no one has ever conducted a proper study — which is why he wants one.

Those interested in the dueling scientific arguments can find King’s report on the Ontario government website and McMurtry’s response at www.windvigilance.com.

But regardless of who wins the substantive debate, McGuinty’s windmill dreams have already become political nightmares.

Dozens of rural municipal councils, angered by the province’s decision to take away their regulatory authority, have passed motions of complaint.

Even the Ontario Federation of Agriculture — which represents farmers who rent their land to wind firms — has called for a moratorium on new turbines until a serious health study can be done.

The opposition Conservatives smell blood.

Trotting around through all of this is the unassuming Bob McMurtry.

He heads up a new international body of doctors and scientists investigating wind power called the Society for Wind Vigilance. Throughout small-town Ontario, he is in great demand as a speaker.

“There’s a real level of anger there,” he told me. “Rural Ontario is on fire.”

Thomas Walkom’s column appears Wednesday and Saturday.

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#15 2011-01-16 06:59:30

bulldog
Member
Registered: 2008-03-05
Posts: 665

Re: wind turbines,,yeh or nay

if you feel better with another study then more power to you.......

most if not all of the symptoms of wind turbine syndrome are the same as the claims of people who are against the smart meters.....
the symtoms overlap with basic human aging and at the present time cannot be proven despite the hundreds of studies on this world wide..........

it is an issue that never sleeps much like who killed kennedy or who blew up tower 7 at the world trade centre?????

in 2008 i was concerned with the controversy and I picked some observation points 500 meters from a 2 megawatt enercon wind turbine with others further distant and i could not hear it or the others.  on a very windy day,  i thought i might hear it but I could not really be sure because of the other background noises of traffic and normal wind.   I saw a youtube video from england that went viral,  he films a wind turbine and it is very loud but he does not disclose that he is directly standing under another turbine behind the camera.   i have learned that the anti wind turbine people do little tricks like this.     A lot of rich celebreties,lawyers,,,,doctors and pharmascists own land and cottages near proposed wind turbine sites so they can launch various arguments,,,protest (information) groups to combat the development,,,,but the observations made by these people are not impartial or peer reviewed...

Last edited by bulldog (2011-01-16 07:39:00)

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